I wish I could have made it tonight, but it was a little tricky for us on a Thursday! I couldn't let this week's discussion slip by without the chance to make a few comments.
One of the most important things that I disagreed with in this chapter is the idea that we would have absolutely no idea when the Lord's return would be. We have been taught to expect Jesus' return for His elect at any time without warning, but there are very specific warnings for the end of time given throughout Scripture.
In example, when Jesus is speaking in Matthew 24, He says the time of His return will be likened to the days of Noah. The world was caught off guard, yes, but does anyone remember a certain family knowing the flood was coming? I recall an old guy and his family building a big boat and getting laughed at because he said disaster was inevitable. The idea that the elect will know when time is almost up is not an idea I came up with. (When Jesus says we won't know the day or the hour, I agree. We won't know the exact day or hour. He said later in reference to the Holy Spirit, that He would come and remind the disciples of the things He taught and give them new insight - I believe we find that in Paul's writings as well as other new testament authors) If you read 1 Thessalonians 5, you will find something interesting. Paul starts the chapter out by saying that the day of the Lord will come as a thief. People will be saying everything is well and secure and then in a moment unforeseen destruction. But THEN he says that "you" (meaning believers) "are not in darkness for that day to overtake you as a thief." In verse 6 he challenges us to be wide awake, watchful and circumspect. (Verse 9 also says He did not appoint us to wrath but to salvation through Christ and in ch 1:10 he says Jesus rescues us OUT of the wrath that is coming on the whole world.) In Hebrews 10:25 we are told to "gather ourselves together all the more as you see the day approaching." This shows that we who are watching will "see this day approaching".
I do not need to go over every passage in the Bible that tells us to be watchful for the return of the Lord, nor do I feel it necessary to go over the prophecies that have been fulfilled in the last 60 years.
In regards to prophecy, I find it interesting that Revelation is so frequently attacked. It is a booger to understand, but so were all the prophecies about Jesus' first coming until it was unfolding. One important and overlooked fact here...NO CONCEPT in Revelation originates in Revelation! Everything John discusses is a magnifying glass on what Daniel predicted over 500 years before Revelation was written. Interesting fact about Daniel, each prophecy that has been fulfilled has been fulfilled shockingly literally. In fact, so literally, that Bible critics suggest it was written after the events came to pass. Daniel foretold of 70 weeks of years (490 years) and 483 of them came to pass perfectly. Then something happened in Israel's history - it was interrupted if you will by the age of the Gentiles. John's Revelation describes in detail the last 7 years of Daniel's vision. The Gentile church was not part of the first 69 weeks of years, and so to me it is no big leap to anticipate not being part of the last 7 years (known as JACOB's trouble - a time of God dealing with unbelief) So at that point, byebye believer's, see you in the clouds!
Finally (and I apologize for my wordiness) Campolo stated that the teaching of the rapture originated with John Darby. It didn't. The Shepherd of Hermas (who was alive around 100 years after Jesus' death and resurrection) taught "if you prepare yourselves, repent with all your heart and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape the great tribulation." Somewhere in the 4th-6th centuries Ephraem the Syrian taught "all saints and the elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins." So, where John Darby may have been the first to use the word "rapture" (taken from the Greek word "harpozo" meaning snatched or caught up in 1 Thessalonians 4) he was most certainly not the first man to teach it. Even if he had been though, it doesn't seem like the best argument to say it is too new to be true. In example, I recall some very intelligent men in early history thinking the world was flat. Just because that made sense to them, further study revealed the earth is quite shapely. I fail to see how this could be any different.
All right, that's enough from me for now. I really hope that any of you that made it will take time to fill the rest of us in on your conversation!
Looking forward to next time!
Jana
